//How We Buy Wine Based on Secret Retail Triggers with Dr. Tim Dodd

How We Buy Wine Based on Secret Retail Triggers with Dr. Tim Dodd

Introduction

What would surprise us about the way we buy wine? What techniques do wine retailers use to trigger impulse buys in the store? What are the biggest differences between the way men and women buy wine? Why is a direct to consumer sales model beneficial for you as a buyer?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with Dr. Tim Dodd, James Young Regents Professor of Hospitality Management, and Director of the Texas Wine Marketing Research Institute at Texas Tech University.

You can find the wines we discussed here.

 

Highlights

  • What was Tim’s most iconic wine moment?
  • What might surprise you about the way we buy wine?
  • Which characteristics put certain wine stores and restaurants above the rest?
  • Are there certain questions you should ask wine buyers in order to better help them?
  • What techniques do retailers use to encourage us to buy wine?
  • What parallels can you see between the Canadian and Texan wine markets?
  • How does having a local wine industry affect you as a consumer?
  • Do wineries with large marketing budgets have a big influence on what you drink?
  • Why is direct to consumer sales so beneficial for you?
  • What is the economic argument for direct shipping?
  • Do men and women tend to have different wine buying habits?
  • How do men and women respond differently to free tasting and winery tours?
  • Why should you focus on educating consumers in your marketing?
  • What’s the best piece of wine advice Tim has received?
  • Who would Tim like to share a glass of wine with?

 

Start The Conversation: Click Below to Share These Wine Tips

 

About Dr. Tim Dodd

Tim Dodd is the James Young Regents Professor of Hospitality Management, and Director of the Texas Wine Marketing Research Institute at Texas Tech University. He also serves as the Associate Dean of Administration in the College of Human Sciences.

Dr. Dodd worked with the New Zealand grape and wine industry before becoming involved with the Texas industry in the late 1980s. He served as the President of TWGGA in 1996-1997 and was active in a number of other roles within the Association.

Tim completed his dissertation work on winery tourism and continues to conduct research on various marketing and economic issues related to wine. He has also published numerous articles concerning wine marketing and winery tourism in a variety of journals and has presented at a number of international conferences.

 

Resources

 

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Join me on Facebook Live Video every second Wednesday at 7 pm eastern for a casual wine chat. Want to know when we go live?

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Thirsty for more?

  • Sign up for my free online wine video class where I’ll walk you through The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner (and how to fix them forever!)
  • Join me on Facebook Live Video every second Wednesday at 7 pm eastern for a casual wine chat.
  • You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
  • The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on Amazon.ca, Amazon.com and other country-specific Amazon sites; iTunes.ca, iTunes.com and other country-specific iTunes sites; Audible.ca and Audible.com.

 

Transcript & Takeaways

Welcome to episode 86!

What would surprise you about the way you buy wine? What are the biggest differences between the way men and women buy wine? Why is a direct-to-consumer sales model the best for you as a buyer?

That’s exactly what we’ll learn in this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. We’re chatting with Dr. Tim Dodd, Professor of Hospitality Management, and Director of the Texas Wine Marketing Research Institute at Texas Tech University. Dr. Dodd joins me from Texas.

This conversation first aired on my regular Facebook live video a couple of years ago, so keep that in mind as the context for Dr. Dodd’s comments.

Also, you’ll hear me respond to viewer questions. You can be part of that conversation every second Wednesday at 7 pm eastern.

I’ll include a link as to where you can find us on Facebook as well as the video version of this conversation in the show notes at nataliemaclean.com/86.

If you want to discover mouth-watering juicy wines and what to pair with them, sign up for my free, online video wine class the 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner (and how to fix them forever!).

Go to nataliemaclean.com/class and choose a time and date that work for you. I look forward to seeing you inside the class!

Okay, on with the show!

 

You can also watch the video interview with Tim that includes bonus content and behind-the-scenes questions and answers that weren’t included in this podcast.

 

Well, there you have it! I hope you enjoyed this chat with Dr. Tim Dodd.

Here are my takeaways:

  1. I’m fascinated with the triggers that retailers use to make us unconsciously buy wine, or more of it, whether it’s quantity discounts, end-aisle displays or in-store tastings.
  2. There are a lot of parallels between the Texas wine industry and Ontario as well as other regions that are still developing a strong place in consumers’ minds, even though the quality of the wine is already established.
  3. We hit on cross-border shipping, which remains an issue here in Canada. The best push Dr. Dodd believes is the economic one of developing rural jobs, especially with those in traditional farming declining. As well, wine helps develop tourism clusters in these areas that include restaurants, art shops and other small, local businesses. It makes sense that the development of a wine industry also propels forward the development of a wine and food culture more broadly in a region or country.
  4. Although our discussion took place long before Covid-19, he’s prescient in saying that the direct-to-consumer model of sales is also the best for wine drinkers when you’re not influenced by those in-store triggers and can develop a direct relationship with the winery over time.
  5. And finally, Dr. Dodd differentiates the wine buying behaviour between men, who tend to seek trophy wines for their cellars, and women, who mostly buy wine for immediate consumption. Other studies, including several from the New York Times, reveal that women buy 80% of wine as the household purchasers of most consumer goods and as the social planners for most families.

You won’t want to miss next week when I’ll be chatting with Kevin O’Leary, aka the self-described Mr Wonderful from Shark’s Tank and Dragon’s Den. He shares what he would consider to be the toughest questions he’d have to answer if he were pitching the idea for his own wine brand on one of those shows. Plus, he delivers what he considers the Cold Hard Truth for the wine industry next week.

In the meantime, if you missed episode 46 where we talk with Gus Clemens, who has a syndicated wine column that’s published in more than newspapers, including USA Today, go back and take a listen. We take a deep dive into the wines of his home state, Texas, and explore other issues like wine writing ethics. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

If you liked this episode, please tell a friend about it, especially one who’s interested in the fascinating wine buying tips that Dr. Dodd shared. You’ll find links to the wines we tasted, a full transcript of our conversation, the video version of this chat, where you can find us on Facebook live every second Wednesday at 7 pm, and how you can connect with me personally in my free online video class at nataliemaclean.com/86.

Thank-you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week, perhaps a wine that you bought directly from a winery!

 

 

Full Transcript

Natalie MacLean 0:00
What are the big differences between the way men and women buy wine?

Dr. Tim Dodd 0:03
Men tend to be trophy buyers, so they buy for sellers, and they like to have things that are rare and exceptional, whereas women a lot more sort of practical for more immediate consumption. They’re conscious of colour and labels, a lot more so than men. And then, when people go into a tasting room, they get a free visit around the winery, they get a couple of free glasses of wine, and have a great experience. Women tend to buy wine out of a feeling of obligation, but feel obligated because they’ve had such a great experience.

Natalie MacLean 0:51
Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places? And amusingly awkward social situations. That’s the blend here on the unreserved wine talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean. And each week, I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle please. And let’s get started. Welcome to Episode 86. What would surprise you about the way you buy wine? What are the biggest differences between the way men and women buy wine? And why is the direct to consumer sales model the best for you as a buyer? That’s exactly what we’re going to learn in this episode of The unreserved wind talk podcast. we’re chatting with Dr. Tim Dunn Professor Hospitality Management and director of the Texas wine Marketing Research Institute at Texas Tech University. Dr. Dodd joins me from Lubbock, Texas. This conversation first aired on my regular Facebook Live video show a couple of years ago. So keep that in mind as the context for Dr. Dodds comments. You’ll also hear me respond to viewer questions. You can be part of that conversation every second Wednesday at 7pm. Eastern. I’ll include a link as to where you can find us on Facebook, as well as the video version of this conversation. that’ll all be in the show notes at Natalie MacLean comm forward slash 86. If you want to discover some juicy mouthwatering wines and what to pair with them, sign up for my free online video wine class called the five wine and food pairing mistakes that can ruin your dinner and how to fix them forever. Go to Natalie MacLean comm forward slash class and choose a time and date that work for you. I look forward to seeing you inside the class. Okay, on with the show.

We are going to look at the ways that liquor stores have little triggers in store to prompt us to buy wine and restaurants do the same thing. We’re going to look at wine consumer behaviour, wine marketing campaigns, what’s worked in the past what hasn’t, because our expert really knows has dug into that has done the research and has some fascinating results to share with us. So let me introduce our guest more fully. He is the James young region’s professor of hospitality management and the director of Texas wind Marketing Research Institute at Texas Tech. University. He worked with the New Zealand grape and wine industry before becoming involved in the Texas industry in the late 1980s, and has served as president and other roles within that association. He completed his doctoral dissertation on winery tourism and continues to conduct research on marketing and economic issues related to wine. He has also published numerous articles on these topics in a variety of professional journals and has presented at various international conferences, and I would like to welcome him now. Welcome, Dr. Tim Dodd. Hello. Hi, Natalie.

Dr. Tim Dodd 4:37
Thanks for having me on your show.

Natalie MacLean 4:38
Oh, absolutely. Our pleasure. And you’re in Lubbock, Texas, correct?

Dr. Tim Dodd 4:43
Yes. And for those of you who don’t know, we love it Texas’s it’s in the High Plains of Texas in the panhandle, kind of a lot of panhandle area and has been the centre part of a lot of the grape growing industry down here for really the last 30 years or so.

Natalie MacLean 4:58
A fantastic is that Because it’s at high altitude or high altitude plantings around you.

Dr. Tim Dodd 5:04
Yes, exactly. We’re here at about 3000 feet. So we’re on a plane at very flat, but we get long, hot summer days, but then call evenings calls down to the 60s and 70s in the evening and even cooler actually, and then some paths during the summer. So that allows us to be able to grow good quality grapes up to you.

Natalie MacLean 5:25
I do want to know more about Texas wine even though we can’t really get it here in Ontario. We have viewers from across the states of Canada, the world actually, you have an interesting story, Tim, about how you first came to wine. So why don’t you share that with us to start off with?

Dr. Tim Dodd 5:41
Sure. I think everyone has iconic wine moments in their lives that they really remember. Some of them may have been something that really got you interested in wine. Mine was actually as a 22 year old I was working three jobs, all of them involving alcohol in some form. After I graduated from university, and we were mostly selling beer at the liquor store that I was at, but one night, my boss pulled out an old bottle of Australian shreds that they had and opened there. And I was just blown away, it was just so much more interesting than any of the winds that in my head really, I just had sweet whites and, you know, sparkling cold back and things like that. But as a as a young person growing up. And so when I tried that, that really stuck in my mind. And I thought, wow, this is an industry This is an area that is a little different, that has a lot more complexity than I even knew. And so I started learning from there on out and had various roles that kept building on that.

Natalie MacLean 6:43
That’s true, it always seems to be one pivotal wine or experience that turns us on to widen. That’s a great story, Tim, I would love to know you’ve published lots of research papers, so much research so much interesting insights will surprise us about the way we buy wine. What sort of behaviours do we exhibit in liquor stores, especially, that we may not even be aware of.

Dr. Tim Dodd 7:07
or the main thing with wine is that it’s just so different depending on situations and on the consumer. For those of you who have been both a consumer and also involved in the fashion of the very good people are those that really try and figure out the match. And when you can match up the level of expertise of that consumer with the types of wine that you think they like, then you really can hone in directly there. And I think that’s what really good wine stores do. They do that through training of their staff, and certainly in restaurants. That’s a major part of good salesmanship as well.

Natalie MacLean 7:43
Hmm. Let me see if I can misinterpret your insights on purpose. Does that mean those with high expertise should be drinking complex wines and the rest baby back saying that to be provocative?

Dr. Tim Dodd 7:58
No, no, I mean, I think Think the retail outlet or the store, whoever is selling the wine needs to figure out or make sure they know who the consumer is very quickly. And so to that person’s needs and wants,

Natalie MacLean 8:12
and how do they figure out quickly? Are there a few key questions? Are they looking at

Dr. Tim Dodd 8:16
how they’re dressed? What are the questions they might ask to discover where this person is at what they might like? Definitely, you know, some of it is in pricing, some his region and you can just get a sense of someone’s knowledge and background as you start going through a little conversation. And I think people engage in that conversation, they can get a lot quicker to where they need to be.

Natalie MacLean 8:38
If you were on the floor, what would be your first two questions that you’d ask a prospective wine buyer,

Dr. Tim Dodd 8:44
price range that they’re looking at, and also What’s the occasion, occasion for wine is a huge part of consumers interest for that, if it’s just a casual time, then you’re going to be looking at a completely different wine and something that you might be serving to your Boss, for instance, in a very important dinner that you might be having, that should signal sort of one or two paths that you might go on.

Natalie MacLean 9:09
Yeah. And how would you gauge their level of interest which you sort of say, can you pronounce Gilbert’s demeanour? Or

Dr. Tim Dodd 9:14
how would you give them a little test of regions and things like

Natalie MacLean 9:19
that? What might you ask to gauge interest? Sort of subtle question you could ask or the Somalia in a restaurant, for instance, to gauge someone’s level of expertise.

Dr. Tim Dodd 9:28
I think you start with things like, Do you prefer a red wine or white wine or there’s sort of a good Pfister coverage of thing and then you start talking about regions you’d start talking about pairing of is this sort of a meal wine as a as something for casual drinking. So you sort of start narrowing down from this very broad picture that we have with wine of literally thousands of different types of variety bottles that can be in the store down to that last one. And sometimes it can really be down to you know how much they want to spend.

Natalie MacLean 10:00
Sure, one of your papers, research studies looked at the triggers that wine retailers use to encourage us to buy wine. So what’s out there in liquor stores? Is it endale displays? Is it certain colours? What is it that liquor retailers use to sort of almost unconsciously trigger? Oh, yeah,

Dr. Tim Dodd 10:20
I’d like that. Why? Some of it’s actually related to the wine laws of the particular state and region. For instance, some laws will allow in store postings, some regions will not instal, tastings is a very powerful tool that retailers will use because it allows you to try before you buy and feel comfortable with that wine and that water does before you actually pick it up. So that’s a sort of an impulse kind of buy. There’s also certainly quantity buying which again, sometimes can be you know, you get 10% off if you buy a six or whatever that might be. So instead of buying four bottles, you end up throwing another couple in there. Just a follow up, I know I do that regularly, I get to sort of 10 bottles and then realise that I get a 15% or 10% discount on on the thousand So, so those sorts of things, placing certain promotions in aisles, certainly seasonal promotions that are around Christmas, Thanksgiving, all those sort of things are important as well.

Natalie MacLean 11:22
Right? And have you discovered in your research certain in store promotions that are just not effective? like they’ve been tried and it just didn’t work?

Dr. Tim Dodd 11:31
I can’t think of any, there’s a lot of debate about regional promotion, for instance, making Texas its own section, should it be scattered around in with varietals, there’s still some debate about that. One finding we did find is if there’s a negative perception towards a particular region, maybe it’s new people don’t really know about it or anything, then you’re better to put it in the ball, just scattered amongst the varietals rather than highlighting As its own section,

Natalie MacLean 12:01
sure, yeah, the maturity of the industry there’s parallels there for Niagara Okanagan here in Canada, but I’m sure other wine regions in the US and around the world. So with Texas, there are a lot of retailers now highlighting them because people want to buy local.

Dr. Tim Dodd 12:16
Yes, very much so. And also because of the I think the quality and maturity of the industry 30 years ago, probably not so much. We had about 25 wineries now we have about 400, our 400 wineries located around the state. It’s moved from being just a very kind of small, almost quaint kind of thing where you had you know, cowboy boots on the label and I’m being very much like that to do a lot more of a very serious industry where with a figured out varietals that great beasts and regions and all that.

Natalie MacLean 12:49
Absolutely well cowboy boots in Texas and marsupial’s in Australia. I don’t know too many of you have been to or are aware of stores that will also organise wines by food pairing. There’s some in New York that do like they have fish, and then they have chicken. And I’m wondering what your opinion is of that, you know,

Dr. Tim Dodd 13:07
I think anything of those ways and and actually, there’s some big stores that will have both variety, and then also by region, but certainly food pairings a good one as well. I’ve also seen some by the sort of heavy light, you know, it’s a red, white and then heavy to lighter style wines to the right,

Natalie MacLean 13:27
like a progressive wine list almost. Yeah, yeah. So are there unusual triggers that restaurants use to or hidden triggers that restaurants use to get us to buy wine, like through your studies or even just what you’ve read?

Dr. Tim Dodd 13:42
Yes, we did a little study once where we put one right next to a food item. So we would have the chicken item, we would put Chardonnay and a vignette or something Beside that,

Natalie MacLean 13:53
like a display in the restaurant.

Dr. Tim Dodd 13:55
No, we would just have it on the menu. Oh, I see. So be on the menu. We looked at whether or not that increased sales of wine during that time. And we found that it did. And it’s basically was highlighting that and giving consumers also a kind of a trigger and an idea of a way to realise that this is a good match and make them feel a little more comfortable. I would say this works, especially in a state such as Texas was and still is, to some extent, a pretty new wind consuming state as well as the wind producing state. We were in, I think, for 40 years or 42nd in terms of per capita wine consumption for a long time, and very low per capita, but it was basically beer and whiskey or no alcohol. So there’s been a lot of consumer change to in terms of making this more of a wine culture over the last 30 years, which has been fantastic. There’s so

Natalie MacLean 14:45
many parallels with Canada. I mean, because we are on a northern parallel and perhaps you’re in the more Southern, it wasn’t traditionally a wine culture wine growing region and it was beer and whiskey up here to have you looked at restaurant lists where they sort of have the anchoring cheap wide, and then you go one two up, and that’s the one you buy like, anything like that?

Dr. Tim Dodd 15:07
No, we haven’t. But I am aware of that. A lot of restaurants do make this and you know, you see such wonderful wine lists, and also some really terrible ones as well. And I really think it can make success or failure of the whole restaurant or wine list is such an important part these days, as that one culture is developing, and people are expecting more now to Yeah, it’s all becoming more sophisticated. And just add to that, I want to say to that, I think local wine industries play a huge role in developing wine consumer culture. I think if you have a local wine industry, like in Ontario, and I’ve been up there, inherit a part of Brock University, they do some good wine research with that if you have that local wine industry, it gets people out to the wineries they get to see and hear about wine, they get to experiment and try different wines that those wines Reason stop feeling comfortable about I bring it home, they stopped their own little Salah. They do all those things that create that one culture. So I think that has played a very important role.

Natalie MacLean 16:11
Yes, because I think wine is a hand sell, if you will, like in a restaurant or liquor store. I mean, it’s just so confusing it you can read the first chapter of a book you can try and address but usually unless there’s a tasting station, you can’t try that wine. You’ve just got the label to go on. So I think being coddled in a good way as a consumer through a local industry is a good thing. Laurie asks, Dr. Tim, do you think that the bigger wineries that have more marketing spend greatly influenced what is available and what we drink?

Dr. Tim Dodd 16:42
Yes, they do. But increasingly, the smaller wineries are playing a big role locally. They have more access to different markets, certainly in some parts of the US where you have direct sales, you can get that little one from Idaho from Colorado or something like that. Be able to tap into those as opposed to being stuck with the few large brands that are there. And I think that’s what opening up markets and allowing sales direct to the consumer allows.

Natalie MacLean 17:14
And are you going through the same issues? We are here in Canada like this direct shipping is a big issue here. We can’t ship across provinces. It’s actually easier for us to get a California Wine than it is from province to province. It’s insane. Are you experiencing that as well?

Dr. Tim Dodd 17:30
Since I’ve been involved in the US industry? Yes, that’s been an ongoing issue. It’s a lot better right now than it was Texas. Certainly, we are allowed to have shipping in across state lines, that there is some regulation associated with that. But there was a time where you were not able to get wine from California or from wherever.

Natalie MacLean 17:51
What changed it other than lobbying politicians. Was there anything we can do here to take as a case note study from you?

Dr. Tim Dodd 18:00
Thing changed for Texas was that we have a local industry, that local industry has an economic impact on the state that brings in X number of tax dollars. It has jobs. I think the argument of rural development is a huge one, in terms of helping us grow our local industry in rural areas that have been declining. And wine is a great diversification away from cotton and corn and other and other crops that we had. So I think the economic argument actually is that the strongest one as well, you know, consumer choices is a big one too. But that doesn’t always go as far as I say as jobs taxes that a local industry can bring in and I think make the argument that if we can free up these markets that allows for that growth and development of local industries.

Natalie MacLean 18:50
That is pivotal. I haven’t heard it put that way before because we’ve talked about free my grapes up here but the whole Rural Development jobs and not concentrating everything in a city and the congestion and the services that attend to that, like getting people good jobs out in rural areas, especially as farming jobs are on the decline, like this is such a high value add grassroots kind of agricultural product, I would think, yeah, there’ll be a big push to try to do that.

Dr. Tim Dodd 19:20
Yeah, you get a winery out there. And before long will be a restaurant or tour around it and someone who likes to do that opens up their little store. And so you have sort of all cluster of tourism out in the rural areas that can make a big impact on a local community with good jobs, like you said.

Natalie MacLean 19:36
So in the world of wide marketing campaigns, doesn’t have to be wine tourism, but could be for a particular brand is there when that was a disaster that you can talk about, I would love to know,

Dr. Tim Dodd 19:46
I can’t really think of any, we don’t actually get in this part of the world, a lot of wine marketing, or to the wineries campaigns. And I don’t know whether that’s the reason for that, but We don’t really get a lot of magic campaigns, get some in print and things like that, but not, certainly not.

Natalie MacLean 20:07
But say on in print, have you found any that are particularly successful or not successful? Is there anything that has caught your eye? I mean, we don’t have a Got Milk campaign for wine

Dr. Tim Dodd 20:18
that I’ve seen. And I think part of the reason for a long time there was sensitivity because it’s alcohol or happens to have alcohol as part of its makeup. And I think there was a concern about that, oh, I also think wine is such a fragmented industry. We have a few huge players, and then literally thousands of thousands of small producers and trying to get sort of a coordinated message is going to be pretty difficult.

Natalie MacLean 20:45
Yeah, that’s true. There’s no economies of scale, it seems. And just, again, you’d look at a book, Tom Clancy book that was published in 1989 versus the reprint now in 2018. It’s the same book At a wine for most advantages, that’s completely different. Yeah. Okay. So Tim, what kind of research projects are you working on now? What’s new in the world of wine marketing that might interest us from a consumer perspective,

Dr. Tim Dodd 21:14
there’s a lot of different topics, one of the things I thought would happen is that I, at some point, I’d run out of topics that we could think about in terms of wine, but it just keeps evolving. The business is constantly evolving, it’s becoming seems like more global, there’s new types of packaging, that are coming along new varieties, new regions, consumers acting in different ways and looking at different things differently. As generations change. I thought it would be a little easier to kind of figure things out and then be done and move on to beer or something. But, but now, it’s just something that really is constantly changing. And we’ve done some studies for instance, on males and females looking at yeah That kind of came up in some of our studies and looking at differences in how males and females tend to look at things. And certainly there’s a lot of exceptions to whatever rules you find, but

Natalie MacLean 22:10
But what did you find generally what are the big differences between the way men and women buy wine?

Dr. Tim Dodd 22:15
One of the first things is that men tend to be trophy buyers. So they buy for sellers and they like to have things that are rare and exceptional, whereas woman a lot more sort of practical for more, you know, immediate consumption. They’re conscious of colour and labels, a lot more so than men. And then, in the tasting room setting, we came across a really interesting, my colleague Natalia and I did a study looking at what happens when people go into a tasting room. They get a free visit around the winery, they get, you know, a couple of free glasses of wine, and have a great experience. Well, women tend to be by either wine t shirts, whatever it else add a feeling of obligation. They feel obligated because they’ve had such a great experience. And so you know, someone spent some time with me, and I really need to feel kind of guilty if I don’t, if I don’t buy something. Now, if you put a $10 pasting fee on that, then that goes away. Because you’ve satisfied your obligation, basically. Yeah. And actually, with a little bit of a look at whether or not it was actually better to be free, and get people to buy more, or put $10 or, you know, whatever it is on the pasting fee and not get as much in the way of sales. And we could have gone a little further on that. I think that would be really kind of interesting to find out where that point was where you generate more money

Natalie MacLean 23:49
crossover. So what was the net analysis? Is it better to be free or not? I think the pins

Dr. Tim Dodd 23:57
like everything with wind, thanks a lot. That is dependent on where you are and the region you’re in. If you’ve got literally thousands of people lined up at your door that are wanting to just churn through, then you’ve really got to put a fee on it and do that. If you’re really trying to get people in the door. And then it’s actually makes probably more sense to have a free tastings and find that people will actually buy more in those situations. And then miles on the other hand, they need feel grateful in order to buy in other words, they need to feel like they’ve had such a good wine and feel like really good about the experience that in other words, they don’t feel as guilty as about walking out the door with a dress, without anything if they didn’t really like that.

Natalie MacLean 24:42
Okay, so they’re not beholden, they just want to know that they’ve had a great experience. And so yes, I’ll lay down some cash. Yeah, interesting. Laurie says I’m a wine importer of Italian wine. What are the two key tips you’d recommend when marketing focus on the winery, focus on the end consumer, best way to get the word out using online marketing she’s asking Hmm, good question, Laurie.

Dr. Tim Dodd 25:06
To me, education is the key to pretty much everything. So I think you’ve just got to spend time educating whoever you can, in a fun way, because once people have knowledge of whatever one you have in the region, and then there are a lot more Canada, but there’s just so many different brands and styles and things that will totally confused. I don’t remember the winds up here last week. And I mean, you kind of get general categories regions, but it is very confusing for consumers.

Natalie MacLean 25:39
Awesome. Okay. So, Tim, I can’t believe how this has flown by. I want to ask you a few more personal wine questions. What’s the best piece of wine advice you’ve ever received? That education

Dr. Tim Dodd 25:50
brings enjoyment. I really believe that with wine I think it’s the key to so many things is the more you know about a particular topic and the more you learn, the more you enjoy looking at that bottle of wine, you suddenly sort of start understanding the history behind the region or the types of grapes that are granted processes, all those sort of things add to the enjoyment of wine as a product and a category. So the more and more you can do, taking courses, reading books, going to places, if you can, if you can travel, travel is just a beautiful way to learn. And it just reinforces all the things I’ve been fortunate to go on a few trips to places that I’ve, you know, read about and heard about, but once you go there just reinforces and puts those things into a whole new level.

Natalie MacLean 26:42
Absolutely. Like I’ve been to burger D, and just it’s a confusing region to start with. Yeah, when you taste and you’re in the place, and then you’re tasting the wine, that’s that multi sensory thing that comes together. And the other example I would take from outside of the wine world is I was at answer for 20 some years. So when I watch ballet or somebody dance, I don’t just have an intellectual response to it, I have a muscular response to it, because I’ve been there done that, like it’s a full body, kind of. And so I do believe when you educate yourself, there is deeper enjoyment, it’s okay to just ride along the surface and have a glass and not think about it. But there’s something to be said for really knowing the deeper levels and saying, well, I see their sight taste that I get that I get the minerality of the terroir or whatever.

Dr. Tim Dodd 27:32
Absolutely. And you know that those fantastic moments when you are meeting with the winemaker or someone and they’re going through the history of the winery, and really talking in depth about it and try it, just to me magic. That’s what the whole industry is all about.

Natalie MacLean 27:48
Yeah. One more question here. If you could share a bottle of wine with anyone living or dead. Who would that be? What would the wind be?

Dr. Tim Dodd 27:57
You know, I’d sort of have to go a couple of people in History, Winston Churchill have been an interesting one, because you know, of his love for champagne. Who could say no to good champagne. And he was such just an interesting person, his writing and all the things, leadership and all the things he did throughout his life. And then the other one, I think would be maybe Thomas Jefferson, again, because of how he introduced wine. He was a big influence to introducing wine us and his knowledge and certainly starting up wine there in Virginia. And

Natalie MacLean 28:30
would you try to introduce both of them to Texas wine,

Unknown Speaker 28:33
of course.

Natalie MacLean 28:37
Have a glass of this. Excellent. So is there anything that we haven’t touched on that you’d like to mention right now, Tim?

Dr. Tim Dodd 28:43
I don’t think so. I think we’ve covered pretty well, some good, good topics. I hope that everyone here continues alien and you’ve obviously got a good group of people who want to keep learning and thinking about wine beyond just like you say casual, guys. That make a lot more interesting. So we’ve got a really engaged audience here. And where can we find you online? Tim, certainly through the Texas wine Marketing Research Institute at Texas Tech University. So if you look up the Texas wine Marketing Research Institute, you can track me down and if anyone wants to come and study here, do some research in Texas, fine, give me a shot. See if we can sign you up.

Natalie MacLean 29:23
I almost feel like I’m being recruited for Anyway, we’ll post that link in our blog post so that people can find you and and find the research studies you’ve done which are fascinating. Tim, I want to thank you so much. It’s been a great discussion. great insight. I really appreciate it.

Dr. Tim Dodd 29:40
You’re most welcome. Thanks for having me. Oh,

Natalie MacLean 29:42
okay. Bye for now, Tim. Take care.

Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed this chat with Dr. Tim Dodd. Here are my takeaways, number one, and fascinated with the triggers that retailers used to make us unconsciously buy one or more of it, whether it’s quantity discounts, and dial displays, or in store tastings to, there are a lot of parallels between the Texas wine industry and the Ontario one as well as other regions that are still developing a strong place in consumers minds, even though the quality of the wine has already been established. Number three, even though this was two years ago, we hit on cross border shipping, which remains an issue here today in Canada. The best push Dr. Dodd believes is the economic one of developing good rural jobs, especially with those in traditional farming declining as well. Wine helps develop tourism clusters in these areas that include restaurants, art galleries, and other small local businesses. It makes sense that the development of a wine industry also propels forward the development of wine and food culture. More broadly in a region or country. Number four, although our discussion took place long before COVID-19 he’s prescient in saying that the direct to consumer model of sales is also the best for wine drinkers when you’re not influenced by those in store triggers, and you can develop a direct relationship with the winery over time. And finally, number five, Dr. Dodd differentiates the wine buying behaviour between men who seek trophy wines for their sellers, and women who mostly buy wine for immediate consumption. Other studies, including several from the New York Times revealed that women buy 80% of wine as the household purchasers of most consumer goods and as the social planners for most families. You won’t want to miss next week when I’ll be chatting with Kevin O’Leary, aka the self described Mr. Wonderful from shark tank and Dragon’s Den. He shares what he would consider to be the toughest questions he’d have to answer. If he were pitching the idea for his own wine brand on one of those two shows, plus, he delivers what he considers the cold hard truth for the wine industry next week. In the meantime, if you missed Episode 46, where we talk with Gus Clemens, who has a syndicated wine column that’s published in more than 100 newspapers, including USA Today, go back and take a listen. We take a deep dive into the wines of his home state, Texas, and explore other issues like wine writing ethics. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Unknown Speaker 32:39
The Hill Country ABA American viticultural area, which is between San Antonio and Austin centred on a town called Fredericksburg. German community is the second most visited ABA in the United States.

Natalie MacLean 32:52
Wow. And why is that?

Unknown Speaker 32:53
Well, Napa says number one, but Napa is less than 1000 square miles Hill Country a VA 14,000 square miles. And we could get into thing about Texas’s size too. I mean, you come from the second biggest country in the world. So, you know, both the pluses and the minuses of bigness. The biggest thing about it working is that you’ve got San Antonio and Austin an hour’s drive away. You’ve got Dallas Fort Worth in Houston, three and a half hour drive away. Texas has five of the most populated cities in the United States, San Antonio, seventh largest in Austin to San Antonio, you have two or 3 million people that Italia wanted to can just take a day trip one hour drive, Austin, I think it’s slightly less than that and visit Fredericksburg.

Natalie MacLean 33:43
If you like this episode, please tell a friend about it, especially one who’s interested in great wine buying tips that Dr. Dodd shared. You’ll find links to the wines we tasted a full transcript of our conversation, the video version of this chat, where you can find us on Twitter. Facebook Live every second Wednesday at 7pm and how you can connect with me personally in a free online video class. That’s all in the show notes at Natalie MacLean comm forward slash 86 Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week, perhaps a wine that you bought directly from a winery?

You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full body bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie MacLean comm forward slash subscribe may be here next week. Cheers

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