//Cameron Diaz’s Clean Wine + Wellness & Wine with Devin Parr Part 1

Cameron Diaz’s Clean Wine + Wellness & Wine with Devin Parr Part 1


How did Cameron Diaz’s new clean wine brand cause an uproar in the wine world? Where does wine fit into the wellness world? Which low alcohol and alcohol-free wines are worth trying? Should wine labels have ingredient lists?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with Devin Parr, Founder and Managing Partner of Devin Parr & Associates.

You can find the wines we discussed here.


Watch Party

Join me for the debut Watch Party of the video of this conversation that I’ll be live-streaming for the very first time on Zoom on Wednesday, April 28th at 7 pm eastern.

You can save your spot for free right here. I’ll be jumping into the comments as we watch it together so that I can answer your questions in real-time.

I want to hear from you! What’s your opinion of what we’re discussing? What takeaways or tips do you love most from this chat? What questions do you have that we didn’t answer?



You can also win one of two tickets to an exclusive virtual wine tasting led by Devin Parr that also includes two bottles of premium California wines that’ll be shipped directly to your home.

These tickets are priced at $135 each and enable up to 6 participants per household to participate. We’ll be giving away two tickets, one to each of two different winners.


How to Win

All you need to do is comment on one of these posts before 7 pm EDT on May 5th:




I’ll select the winner randomly from those who participate. You get a bonus entry for every wine-loving friend you tag and if you re-share this post in your stories.

Good luck!



  • How did a wine sales call end with Devin being mistaken for an FBI agent?
  • Why did an embarrassing conversation with a customer renew Devin’s interest in geography?
  • Why should you be fearless when tasting and talking about wine?
  • What incredible experiences did Devin have while studying wine in Italy?
  • How did Bill Buford inspire Devin to move to Italy?
  • What is clean wine?
  • How did Cameron Diaz’s wine brand cause an uproar in the wine world?
  • How has the wine industry unwittingly given marketers an advantage?
  • Where does wine fit into the wellness world?
  • Which low alcohol and alcohol-free wines are worth trying?
  • Should wine labels have ingredient lists?
  • Why is the traditional wine industry so resistant to non-expert consumer opinions?


Key Takeaways

  • I enjoyed Devin’s take on clean wine, and why Cameron Diaz’s new brand caused such an uproar in the wine world. I think a definition would help, but that’s probably difficult to do given how the definitions of organic and biodynamic wines differ so greatly.
  • I think wine can fit with wellness and a blanched life, without becoming a gimmicky or misguided marketing tactic that positions it as some sort of health drink.
  • I’m going to search for the low alcohol and alcohol-free wines that Devin thinks are worth trying.
  • I think wines should be more transparent about ingredients, using a QR code on the label that can be scanned to more details on the winery’s website so that this can change from year to year and not become so burdensome on the winery with packaging changes every vintage.

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About Devin Parr

Devin Parr is the Founder and Managing Partner of Devin Parr & Associates, a PR, marketing and content agency for the beverage, travel, and tourism space. She holds a level 3 WSET certificate and in 2017, was named one of Wine Enthusiast Magazine’s Top 40 Under 40 Tastemakers. She’s written for Bottlenotes, WineCountry.com, NapaValley.com, Sonoma.com, The Plum, The Gourmet Insider, and others, including her own popular blog. Devin earned her B.A. in Political Science and Economics at UC San Diego and she joins us now from her home in Southern California.




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Devin Parr 0:00
So I was giving this tasting class, everyone was really shy. And finally one girl just says, You know what sounds like my grandma’s Cadillac, and we all kind of laugh. But then we dug into it. It was a red wine. It had notes of cherry,

Unknown Speaker 0:13
and she’s like, Oh my god, she

Devin Parr 0:14
had this gross cherry air freshener. And there were leather seats. So it had that leathery note. She smoked cigarettes. So there was the smoky note. It’s such a great encouragement to not get so in our heads about saying what we smell and taste and it was a reminder to just blurt it out. What do you smell here?

Natalie MacLean 0:34
Amen. I love that. I often relate the story very similar to someone in one of my own classes saying this smells like the Dallas airport. It’s like recycling jet fuel, a little bit of that petrol smell you can sometimes get on mature Rieslings,

Unknown Speaker 0:49

Natalie MacLean 0:57
Do you have a thirst to learn about wine, the love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places and amusingly awkward social situations. That’s the blend here on the unreserved wine talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean. And each week, I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle please. And let’s get started. Welcome to Episode 126. How to Cameron Diaz. His new clean wine brand caused an uproar in the wine world. Where does wine fit into the wellness space? Which low alcohol wines are worth trying? And should wine labels have ingredient lists? Our guest this week has those answers for you, plus lots of great wine tasting tips and stories. I’ve got a bonus for you. In addition to this podcast, I’d love for you to join me for the premiere watch party of the video of this conversation that I’ll be live streaming for the very first time on zoom, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube tonight at 7pm. Eastern. I’ll include a link where you can sign up for the zoom tasting for free in the show notes. The video will show you the pictures and other visual elements that we discuss in the podcast. I’ll also be jumping into the comments section on all four platforms as we watch it together so I can answer your questions in real time. It’s like the Netflix version of the podcast. Plus, you can talk to me and ask me questions. You can also see what other people thought of this conversation and answers to their questions. I want to let you know that you can win one of two tickets to an exclusive virtual wine tasting led by our guest that also includes two bottles of premium California wines that will be shipped directly to your home. These tickets are priced at $135 each and enable up to six participants per household to participate. We’ll be giving away two tickets, one to each of two different winners. All you have to do is comment on the social media post I created about the contest. Just pick your favourite platform, Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter and comment on my post before 7pm may 5. In the shownotes you’ll find a link to these posts, the full transcript of our conversation and how you can join me in a free online wine and food pairing class where you can find me on zoom Insta Facebook and YouTube Live video every Wednesday at 7pm that’s all in the show notes at Natalie MacLean comm forward slash one to six. Now on a personal note before we dive into the show, the other night I was blasting Helen ready song I am woman on my bedroom Alexa, my mother’s strength during her divorce inspired me during my own song has since become an anthem for me as I write my memoir. However, the song kept stopping and changing to hard rock. After this happened about four times and I’ve used my impatient mother’s voice with Alexa I wandered into the living room. miles was just around the corner laughing he’d been telling Alexa to change the song each time. I burst out laughing because we’re always playing pranks on each other. Now I just have to think of what to pull on him next. Perhaps I should substitute his favourite round serraj with some cooking wine. Anyway, if you’ve got ideas, let me know. Okay on with the show.

Natalie MacLean 5:02
Devin Park is the Founder and Managing Partner of Devin par and Associates. It’s a PR marketing and content agency for the beverage travel and tourism space. And she holds a level three w set certificate and is working on her diploma. And in 2017, the wine enthusiast magazine named her one of the top 40 under 40 tastemakers. She’s written for all kinds of publications and websites like bottle notes, wine country.com, Napa valley.com, or may Insider, and others including her own very popular blog. Devin earned her BA in political science and economics from the University of California at San Diego. And she joins us now from her home in Southern California. Hello, Devin.

Devin Parr 5:50
Hello, hello. For the record the top 40 under 40 was a while ago. So top 40 over 40 now,

Natalie MacLean 5:59
okay, well, you’re not into the top 100 over 100. So you’ve got a ways to go.

Unknown Speaker 6:04
The next category, right? Yeah, exactly.

Natalie MacLean 6:06
Let’s really open it up. You’ve got so many great stories, and I love the topics that you’re passionate about. They’re a passion of mine, too. We’re gonna dive into those. But first, I wanted to ask you about the time when you were mistaken for an FBI agent.

Devin Parr 6:23
Oh my gosh, is kind of like a dream scenario for me thinks of herself as like, you know, a badass but so I had just started my career in wine in New York City. And I was working for an Italian distributor and wholesaler I won’t name them. But I was doing sales. And I was

Natalie MacLean 6:43
there now is protection that

Unknown Speaker 6:47
out anybody.

Devin Parr 6:50
So I had just started. And if anyone has ever done wine sales, in particular, for an Italian company, in New York City, it is hardcore. And it is just very, very humbling. I think I was maybe 28 you know what i’m very petite blonde. And I was learning the ropes. This is my first sales gig and first wine sales gig. And I had a manager who was very Italian. And he was sort of training me and taking me out on all of his sales calls. And one day, he finally said to me, You know what, you’re ready, you’re going to run this sales call, it’s time for you to sort of fly on your own. And he drove up espa, of course, so I would ride on the back of his mesbah with him with the big helmet on. And knowing this was happening today. You know, I dressed in like, oh, black, and I had big motorcycle boots on up over my knees, you know, a big black coat with military style. And so we walk into this ultra ultra Italian, like old school Italian restaurant in Manhattan. And I was ready, I my heart was pounding. I was like, I was gonna do this. So I walk in with like, all this attitude. And in my best Italian introduce myself. And, you know, say what I’m there for, say I’m taking over the account. And I walked up to basically a big table, you know, all the staff having their family meal at like 4pm before service, and it was the owner and the manager and the wine director and they’re all very Italian. And they just looked at me and listen to my schpeel and it was dead silence like they’re all looking at each other like oh my god, and I was like, did I terrify them? Do I get what I want? Finally, the owner looks at me. He goes Ha. She was like she was FBI. Like this, I scared them.

Natalie MacLean 8:36
Right? So I assume you got the account. They were just going to cooperate.

Unknown Speaker 8:40
Love that. Like No,

Natalie MacLean 8:42
I’m just here to sell you why God, that’s right, relax, relax. And so you have another story. You used to work as a wine director at our Manhattan, New York City wine store, where you were referring to a French region incorrectly. I always thought that

Devin Parr 8:58
this is like so embarrassing.

Unknown Speaker 9:00
I love to start with embarrassing,

Devin Parr 9:03
right? So you know, it’s like I’d studied wine in Italy for two years, like I’ve gotten certifications. And I ran a wine store in New York City. And I was always selling this one wine, it was a Ventus of wha just delicious, crisp, clean. Like I think of it as like the aviana of wines, just delicious. quaffable clean, light white wine. I mean, I sold this wine to everybody because I loved it so much personally. So every time someone was looking for like a great white wine, I was grabbing this bottle and I was trying to explain it every time. And I was like it’s from this region in the very northern most point of France on the border of Switzerland. And I said that to like 300 people or so like I was always pitching this as this northern France wine on the border of Switzerland. And then finally, one day someone looked at me like, you know, that’s not actually where Switzerland is. And I was like, Yeah, but you know, like, up there. It’s northern. It’s On the border, and I’m just sort of gesturing like, Oh my god, I looked at a map. Know Switzerland is not quite to France, it’s to the east. And so I just thought, you know, it’s still light and crisp and acidic. And it’s got to be from the northern part of somewhere and embarrassing a priest me.

Natalie MacLean 10:19
Something that you’ve cracked open when you’re in the Alps or the Andes there. Yeah, they’re all the same thing. humbling, humbling, and very grounded for you to admit. Yes, we like that. And then one time you were leading a wine class, and someone described wine is smelling like your grandmother’s Cadillac.

Devin Parr 10:38
Yes. So I actually love this story. And I use it all the time when I’m coaching people on how to be fearless when tasting wine and talking about aromas. So I was giving this tasting class. And, you know, everyone was really shy and didn’t want to say what they were smelling. And finally, one girl just says, you know, it’s like, smells like my grandma’s Cadillac, and we all kind of laugh, but then we dug into it. And it was a red wine. It had notes of cherry, and she’s like, Oh my god, she had this gross cherry air freshener. And there were leather seats, like all leather seats. So it had that leathery note, she smoked cigarettes in her Cadillac. So there was the smoky note, and it just kind of worked, you know, and it’s such a great encouragement to think about how we taste wines and not get so in our heads about saying what we smell and taste and it was a reminder to just blurt it out, like, what do you smell here? And, you know, if we dig deeper, we can actually get to the bottom of what that means in the wine. Amen.

Natalie MacLean 11:36
I love that. I often relate the story very similar to someone in one of my own classes saying this smells like the Dallas airport. And it’s like recycling jet fuel, maybe a little bit of a petrol smell, you can sometimes get on mature Rieslings right get to the bottom of it. Exactly. Another woman said this is like my son’s dribble cage was the woodchips so you know, the old gauging. So if I

Unknown Speaker 12:03
love that hoop, or maybe the poop, you know, you know,

Natalie MacLean 12:05
that’s true, a bit of barnyard barnyard very specific type of barnyard. Let’s get right down to it. So do you have any other memorable moments? either high or low from your wine career so far? Those are great stories. Does anything else pop up as a highlight or lowlight? Oh my gosh. So

Devin Parr 12:24
as I mentioned, yeah, I got my first one education Italy. I lived there for about two years in Florence after a career in video game PR. So I should have Yeah, I read a book by Bill Buford, I highly recommend.

Natalie MacLean 12:39
I love him. He’s got a new biography out put away. Yeah, but he does another one. He that’s the one I read. Yeah. where he’s baking, I guess in Italy, is it?

Devin Parr 12:48
Yes. So it paints this like incredible picture of a culinary life in Italy. And I was like, I want that. So I quit my job in PR and I moved to Italy, where I studied culinary arts and wine. And I started primarily in the culinary programme at a School of Hospitality in Florence. I was taking a couple of wine classes on the side. And I fell in love with the stories and the traditions and the sense of history and the sense of ritual. And it just felt more cerebral to me in a weird way. So I switched fully over to the wine programme, but I got to do some really incredible things and wine that I feel like now when I look back on it, like I was so incredibly lucky to go taste hundreds of Brunello, like when they’re released in a row and I had this amazing tasting experience that Castelo de funds truthfully in Tuscany, and they did a tasting of I think it was like six different surveys a taken from the same vineyard but like different parts of the vineyard. And they put them next to each other. And you could taste like profound differences just in these tiny microclimate differences. It was really eye opening for me. And I think of it as like the aha moment of wine like this is terroir. This is the study of wine. This is really getting granular and looking at differences just based on a tiny bit of exposure difference or a difference in soil over here. It was incredible.

Natalie MacLean 14:16
Oh, that sounds amazing.

Devin Parr 14:18
Plus, I had a million experiences of you know, choking on my wine when trying to aerated in my mouth.

Natalie MacLean 14:24
That can be not so great, especially if it comes out of your nose.

Devin Parr 14:30
Now perfecting the spit bucket technique. Oh yes. flashes back in your face. And

Natalie MacLean 14:36
that’s that sideways movie moment, but he’s deliberately whatever doing that with the spit bucket. But yeah, I’ve had that happen, too. But yeah, you’ll have to look for Bill Buford. newest novel just came out. It’s called burnt burns. I’m

Devin Parr 14:48
definitely gonna check it out. Because I love to eat that book changed my life. Really. It literally changed my

Natalie MacLean 14:52
life. Absolutely. And I love his approach of doing what you’re writing about. So he doesn’t just observe or interview it. He actually gets his hands into the dough and I think it provides richer insights that way better writing

Devin Parr 15:06
100% and you know his story about the restaurant in kiante called sola Chica. That story, he kinis restaurant. He’s a butcher there and he billed you for becomes a butcher apprentice, and I’ve been to that restaurant it really is exactly how he paints it an incredible experience. So yeah, he got like elbow deep in some meat carcasses.

Natalie MacLean 15:31
Awesome. So let’s dig into some of these articles you’ve written because I find the topics are just fascinating. They’re timely. They’re thought provoking. So I’m going to read a great quote from one of your articles. You said, you think that some white clawed drinking influencer had just come out with a Hitler themed wine brand, given the number of hate pieces published after movie star Cameron Diaz and her friend Catherine power launched their own clean wine brand. So first of all, what is clean wine? And then let’s get to why it’s causing such an uproar, at least in the wine industry.

Devin Parr 16:07
Sure. So yes, my stories are a little. Sometimes they aren’t me enemies. I like to kind of poke the bear a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So clean line, kind of like natural line. It’s nebulous. Like, what does that even mean? And there is no formal definition clean wine. I think a lot of the wine world use it as a marketing term. But at its core, what people use it to describe is a wine that is free from unnecessary additives. So in the wine world, of course, in winemaking, you can use I think up to like there’s like 70 6070 different ingredients that are legally allowed to be added to wine to either perfect it change flaws, enhance it add sweetness that colour, acid, and many of these are naturally derived anyway, many of them are precipitated out, you know, they’re put in there to take something out and they’re removed, and they’re not in the final product. But there have been this cohort of winemakers and wine companies who’ve decided to grab on to this clean term and use it to describe their wines to say they don’t have you know, mega purple in them.

Natalie MacLean 17:14
They’re just great. What’s mega purple for those who might be curious?

Devin Parr 17:18
Oh my gosh, it’s like ultra concentrated grape juice that adds colour and some sort of roundness and sweetness, if I’m getting that correctly. And I’m not a winemaker. Okay, so

Natalie MacLean 17:29
it’s not a colour dye. It’s natural.

Devin Parr 17:31
It’s natural. Yeah. From like, it’s like grape juice on steroids. like super sweet and syrupy and purple. And like as it sounds. Okay. So yeah, so clean wine is, in theory, a wine that’s free from all these things, and it’s just fermented grape juice. So what happened is there are these companies like, you know, scout and seller, or I think it’s dry farm wines, or

Natalie MacLean 17:55
they’re all wine clubs that you can order directly from them. Right,

Devin Parr 17:59
right. And camera D is this brand, Catherine powers brand adaline. So they latched on to this concept. And they launched these brands saying, Hey, we didn’t know all this stuff that was in our wines here. These wine brands in the wine world got up in arms about it saying, There’s generations and generations of winemakers who’ve been making wine in this exact same way with no added this and you know, organic or biodynamic, even or natural to take it a step further. So you know, this is already a thing. And now the celebrity comes in and says, We’re making clean wines and everybody else’s wine is dirty, I guess, by implication. And yeah, so there was this huge uproar, and I thought, you know what, like, This is so frustrating, because if the rest of the wine world had been producing wines in this manner, why weren’t they banging this Gong? You know, why weren’t they shouting it from the rooftops? And they’re mad that a few smart marketers decided to say it and to come in and get it. Yeah. And if this is what consumers want,

Natalie MacLean 18:59
give it to them. Exactly. And there was one article, it was called the goop ification of wine, in the Telegraph, whatever I think in the UK, comparing it to Gwyneth Paltrow, and how many people have gone after her for taking various potions and everything else and claiming, I don’t know maybe it’s not a great direct analogy, in terms of medical or scientific benefits, but the beautification of wires a little harsh, I think, but so why don’t you think the wine industry has not told consumers? This is what’s in your wine or what’s not in your wine hasn’t beat that drum?

Devin Parr 19:37
If I had an answer to that I’d be a rich lady. Or at least like, you know, a much more influential wine personality. But I think there is this hesitation, this resistance, this stubbornness, to look at what consumers want to sort of give it to them. If the wine industry had come together, and I said this in my piece, and created a super smart campaign to say Here’s what’s in your wine, here are the ingredients that could be in your wine. And here’s why it’s okay. Because they’re naturally derived. They’re things like, you know, bentonite clay that we put in to find a filter, and then we remove it. So it’s not even in the wine at the end of the day, the acid we add to acidify our wines is naturally derived. If the wine industry had put together a campaign, I think it’s a missed opportunity that they didn’t. And so of course, marketers are going to seize that opportunity and give consumers what they want. There has just traditionally been this protectiveness of the old guard of wine. And I think there’s a place for that. Absolutely. There are wine enthusiasts and students of wine and scholars of wine, who truly do want to keep things very traditional. And they are very scientific about it. And that’s great. And there’s a place for that. But there’s also a place for consumers who just want to drink the stuff and love the pretty label. And you know, they’re thrilled to see a marketing message that says clean, whether they pursue that or not. Whether it’s you know, their their thing, it doesn’t matter. They’re at least embracing wines and purchasing wines and supporting the industry, which to be honest the industry needs right now.

Natalie MacLean 21:06
Yeah, exactly. As you say, you mentioned white cloth, which is the alcoholic seltzer that’s going to eat or drink wines lunch if the wine industry doesn’t get more innovative. But there just seems to be a particular venom for celebrity endorsed or I don’t know, is it female celebrity endorsed wines, because you’ve got Snoop Dogg out there, as you’ve mentioned, with his wines, and you’ve got other gimmicky things like polygraphs and virtual reality labels. Do you think there’s something in addition to just not wanting change? Why is there particular venom toward clean and wellness and Cameron Diaz and Gwyneth Paltrow? Is there anything more to it?

Devin Parr 21:50
I don’t I mean, yes, potentially, there is this undercurrent of, I think, sexism in a certain way without calling anybody out. I think that is always an undercurrent in the wine world. And there have been some brave women coming out and putting it into that in many ways, and speaking up and trying to change that, which I have so much respect for. But the clean thing, I think everyone is very hesitant to relate wine to wellness directly. And that is a good thing. You know, wine is alcohol at the end of the day, so we don’t want to position it as helpful. But I think there is something to talking about how wine can be incorporated into a healthy or wellness driven lifestyle. You know, I think of myself as someone who is wellness obsessed, and I workout regularly and I try to eat well. But I still also indulge in things like greasy french fries and cheeseburgers. And so you’re human. Yes, I have my tea and cookies every afternoon that my husband brings me and I have chocolate after dinner and I when my kids get McDonald’s, I’m like shovelling the french fries into my face. But I think it’s possible then to position wine is a like the ultimate natural beverage right and be part of a healthy lifestyle that can be enjoyed mindfully and in moderation or as part of your dinner and yeah,

Natalie MacLean 23:14
absolutely. So then what do you think of the movements like dry January and sober curious where some of the rhetoric tends to go even to all alcohol is a toxin? Or I don’t know, what is your take on that?

Unknown Speaker 23:27

Devin Parr 23:29
Someone once said to me, why wouldn’t you just take one day off a week, for the year instead of all of January because last I checked, 52 is more than 30, which is an excellent point. Obviously, if you are questioning your alcohol consumption, I think it’s something worth looking at. Absolutely. And addiction runs in my family. So I always have an eye on what is too much. And me too. But by the same token, there has been this sort of demonization of the wine world and alcohol in general, with these sober curious moments, because there is this genus about them. And if you follow any of the social media accounts, they don’t feel necessarily as inclusive do but they don’t feel that inclusive, they feel very, I guess, judgmental, and exclusive. And again, my job is to support the wine world. So my job is also to communicate ways that you can enjoy wine make it part of your lifestyle without taking over but again, if it’s something that is yes, dry January’s probably a good thing or you know, being sober curious is absolutely worth exploring.

Natalie MacLean 24:32
Yeah, I think I did a conscious uncoupling from both a long time ago, those two movements but

Devin Parr 24:37
yeah, well, there are great non alcoholic products out there right now. Like there’s a sparkling wine called naughty. I used to work with Thomson and Scott and they’re a UK based brand, but they launched this absolutely delicious alcohol free sparkling wine and a lot of alcohol free or D alkalized. wines are pretty gross, to be honest. Like we really haven’t perfected that yet, but they seem to have done an outstanding job. I’m making a delicious sparkling wine that tastes like the real thing but alcohol free.

Natalie MacLean 25:04
That’s amazing. I have to look for that. And I found some of the low alcohol wines that have come out lately either they’re specifically targeted say low alcohol or they’re naturally low in alcohol. Like say, a Riesling have been delicious. Like there’s New Zealand producer, the doctors, I think it’s called, it’s got 9% and I had the rosary last night, it was so good. I couldn’t believe they could pack that much flavour into that low of alcohol because alcohol, as we know, is a flavour carrier. So it’s a challenge.

Devin Parr 25:34
Yes. But did they with that wine? Did they remove some alcohol?

Natalie MacLean 25:37
Did they use like a, like a centrifuge, or whatever they do to spin off the alcohol? I forget what the devices are? No, I think he was. What is his method? Oh, he leaves the canopy on the vine so that the grapes aren’t getting as much direct sunlight. Still, he got these ripe flavours in it. But the sun wasn’t I guess as intense it had a lot of leafy canopy protecting the grapes. And so the sugars just didn’t rise that high in the grapes. And yet they got phenolic or flavour ripening. Wow.

Devin Parr 26:08
I personally seek out lower alcohol lines. And it’s hard with California wines because they tend to just be like 1514 five, but when I’m looking for wines to drink, I mean, I drink wine every day. I’m looking for those lower alcoholic 13. Five is my sweet spot for a red or 14 maybe? Sure. Yeah,

Natalie MacLean 26:27
yeah, I really noticed the difference even between 13, five and 14, maybe it’s age or just how much I’ve drank in my life? I don’t know. But I find once I get past 14, I’m asleep at seven. It’s like I can’t do this. Not that I’m drinking a lot. But anyway, before we leave clean, why? Because there were a few other things that I want to ask you. It just leads me to so many other things. Do you think that wine labels should have ingredients on them like an ingredient list on the bottle?

Devin Parr 26:56
I think if that’s what consumers are asking for? Why not give it to them? I’m in support of it. But you know, there’s the million different questions that go with that to the point of again, you know, if we’re adding something, but then it precipitates out, does that warrant being put on

Natalie MacLean 27:12
the label? Right like the bentonite clay? Yeah.

Devin Parr 27:14
Right. But you know, I think it’s a topic worth exploring. And I think there is a movement in all other areas of life, for transparency, and to know what we’re putting in our bodies. And so I want to encourage the wine industry to catch up, I guess. And yeah, that’s what people are looking for in all areas.

Natalie MacLean 27:32
So if we’re doing it for food, why not do it? For beverages? For beverages? Absolutely. And wine is all about where it comes from how it was made. So you think that’d be a natural extension, an ingredient label, the only point that I see is with small producers or even with maybe mid tier, I don’t know that the ingredients can change each year. And how expensive does it get to keep changing that list? Or are there legal implications? One of the solutions that I read about somewhere it was a hybrid model, where you say four ingredients, scan this barcode, and you go to the website that has the ingredients for that year kind of thing for those who want that info. But

Devin Parr 28:10
yeah, which is a smart solution.

Natalie MacLean 28:12
Yeah, I think so I think something can be done along that line. Cool. So you had a quote from? I think it was Jacqueline Coleman, who said, the wine industry has an inability to accept curious consumers who aren’t experts. Again, are we just bound up in tradition in the wine industry is that, you know, not willing to meet wine consumers where they are.

Unknown Speaker 28:37
Right? And it’s,

Devin Parr 28:39
I think, because when you look at someone who’s a master song, or a master of wine, or even just a an advanced summer certified song, the level of education that they need to achieve is quite staggering. It is. So I think there’s a protectiveness over that body of knowledge and a frustration from more traditional old school wine enthusiasts

Unknown Speaker 29:03

Devin Parr 29:04
I’ve spent all this time learning this, why don’t you a make the effort to learn it if you were just sort of an average consumer or a wine influencer, if you will? Why are you making the effort to win and why don’t you care? And I see both sides in many ways, but I truly believe that just the curious wine consumer, or the person who buys based on label or who likes sweet, buttery Chardonnay, I think they can peacefully coexist with the serious one aficionados who do care about terroir and oak programmes and malolactic and yields and all that jazz. I think we can all exist and if anything, we learn from each other and we grow the wine community and we grow the wine industry. Hmm,

Natalie MacLean 29:53

Devin Parr 29:54
I’m a big advocate for inclusiveness in all things, but in particular, In the wine industry,

Unknown Speaker 30:01
yeah, yeah, that’s great.

Natalie MacLean 30:08
Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed part two of my chat with Devin par. Here are my takeaways. Number one, I enjoyed Devon’s take on clean wine and why Cameron Diaz, his new brand caused such an uproar in the wine world. I do think a definition would help. But that’s probably difficult to do, given how the definitions of organic and biodynamic wines differ so greatly, too. I think wine can fit with wellness and a balanced life without becoming a gimmicky or misguided marketing tactic that positions it as some sort of health drink. Three, I’m going to search for those low alcohol and alcohol free wines that Devin thinks are worth trying. And for I think wines should be transparent about ingredients. Perhaps using a QR code on the back label that can be scanned to get more details on the wineries website so that the ingredients list can change from year to year and not become so burdensome financially on the winery with packaging changes every vintage. Alright, just a reminder that you can win one of two tickets to an exclusive virtual wine tasting led by our guest. That also includes two bottles of premium California wines that we shipped directly to your home. If you comment on the social media post I created about the contest. Just pick your favourite platform, Insta Facebook or Twitter and comment on my post before 7pm on May 5. in the show notes, you’ll find a link to these posts. That full transcript of our conversation. How you can join me in a free online wine and food pairing class and where you can find me on zoom Insta Facebook and YouTube Live video every Wednesday at 7pm. Eastern, including tonight. That’s all in the show notes at Natalie maclean.com forward slash one to six. You won’t want to miss next week when we continue our fascinating chat

Unknown Speaker 32:09
with Devin par.

Natalie MacLean 32:11
In the meantime, if you missed Episode 20 go back and take a listen. I talked about Mel Beck which just celebrated its annual World Day. This full bodied Argentine red wine is perfect for grilled meats as we start to get into the spring and summer season of dining outdoors. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite. Like many artists, Nicholas is fascinated with light, its luminosity, its diffusion, its interplay among the vine leaves. His scientific mind also engaged with light, studying its effect on the health benefits of red wine. Intense sunlight doesn’t mean hotter temperatures, just more intense rays. The intense ultraviolet light at higher elevations speeds photosynthesis, making it more efficient, so the plants are healthier. It also causes the grape skins to thicken in an attempt to protect themselves from the increased radiation. This accelerates the development of natural compounds such as polyphenols, flavonoids, and anthocyanins, that give wine its colour, tannin and flavour.

Natalie MacLean 33:34
If you liked this episode, please tell one friend about it this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in the tips that Devin shared. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your class this week. Whether it’s clean, or a mail back, whatever, as long as it’s delicious and you love it.

Natalie MacLean 34:03
You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full body bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie MacLean comm forward slash subscribe. We’ll be here next week. Cheers